Do you know of anyone who prophesied the riots?
Just thinking of the prophecy about the outpouring of grief before Diana died, the "spirit of Jonah" prophecy just before the whale swam up the Thames etc. Many people are saying that the only useful response to the riots (and related causes) is spiritual - just wondering whether anyone prophesied and, if so, whether the prophecy had any more in it about what to do next?
So, Maclaren, and Bruggeman and others tend towards stating that a prophet is less the one who with long hair and rough attire stares from darkened sockets and mutters - 'repent or perish' but one who spots an unjust situation and boldly speaks out about it whilst also offering a solution rich with possibilities, new life and justice. Sometimes they may say 'God told me about this' but perhaps in our climate such theocratic implications with the implied inability to questions would devalue the message in the eye of many.
Which somewhat flies in the face of the old faith filled heroes like Kuhlman and Wigglesworth - 'God said, I believe, that settles it' - although they were probably referring to holding scripture at face value rather than the word of some hirsute fundamentalist.
Either way, as attractive as the Maclaren ecclesiology appears - as rational, as well thought out, as balanced, as believable, as comforting as it is for those with our dilemma, it seems also to allow the replacement of the supernatural with a God who works within the rules of science and prophets who speak with the words of natural justice , not dissimilar in fact to Amnesty and the UN. Not that those bodies are wrong, but clearly within their remit men are very much encouraged to be good without God, not because of Him.
And from there, it is only a very short step to thinking of the title of one of Tim Keller's books 'What Good is Good?' and coming to a very different conclusion to that of it's evangelical author.
22 years ago I first heard the song Angry Young Man by Billy Joel (vocals start at 2.02 if you are in a hurry) (note the advert that appears for free bible downloads!)
I knew then that I was not supposed to believe those words, that the exact antithesis was where it was at and wife and friends were keen to advise me 'not to go there' . But that verse has recurred like some kind of melody hook through an epic movie, a dark Dr Zhivago theme (is there an H in there?) that try as I might has been tough to escape from and the more I see and hear and read and the older and fatter and more tired I get, the more powerful the lure of the dark side, or cynicism as it is more commonly known, or perhaps, unbelief, becomes. Unless it isn't any of those things and is just… life?
Of course living in the Christian world it would take a very foolish sceptic to deny it all, all that occurs, all the wonders and signs, all the extraordinary people, all the good and glory and Godliness that abounds in the shadow of the abundant and often more public self-promoting empire-building cack. BUT it would be so nice, so nice, if a little of that head attitude I think is called faith could be trepanned into the heads of the lifelong wrestlers and strugglers who, despite it all, often seem to be found amongst the ones who get stuff done, hobbling after what they think they believe in. Perhaps because they have a very good, innate understanding of what might happen if they stop?
Which somewhat flies in the face of the old faith filled heroes like Kuhlman and Wigglesworth - 'God said, I believe, that settles it' - although they were probably referring to holding scripture at face value rather than the word of some hirsute fundamentalist.
Either way, as attractive as the Maclaren ecclesiology appears - as rational, as well thought out, as balanced, as believable, as comforting as it is for those with our dilemma, it seems also to allow the replacement of the supernatural with a God who works within the rules of science and prophets who speak with the words of natural justice , not dissimilar in fact to Amnesty and the UN. Not that those bodies are wrong, but clearly within their remit men are very much encouraged to be good without God, not because of Him.
And from there, it is only a very short step to thinking of the title of one of Tim Keller's books 'What Good is Good?' and coming to a very different conclusion to that of it's evangelical author.
22 years ago I first heard the song Angry Young Man by Billy Joel (vocals start at 2.02 if you are in a hurry) (note the advert that appears for free bible downloads!)
I believe I've passed the age
Of consciousness and righteous rage
I found that just surviving was a noble fight.
I once believed in causes too,
I had my pointless point of view,
And life went on no matter who was wrong or right
I knew then that I was not supposed to believe those words, that the exact antithesis was where it was at and wife and friends were keen to advise me 'not to go there' . But that verse has recurred like some kind of melody hook through an epic movie, a dark Dr Zhivago theme (is there an H in there?) that try as I might has been tough to escape from and the more I see and hear and read and the older and fatter and more tired I get, the more powerful the lure of the dark side, or cynicism as it is more commonly known, or perhaps, unbelief, becomes. Unless it isn't any of those things and is just… life?
Of course living in the Christian world it would take a very foolish sceptic to deny it all, all that occurs, all the wonders and signs, all the extraordinary people, all the good and glory and Godliness that abounds in the shadow of the abundant and often more public self-promoting empire-building cack. BUT it would be so nice, so nice, if a little of that head attitude I think is called faith could be trepanned into the heads of the lifelong wrestlers and strugglers who, despite it all, often seem to be found amongst the ones who get stuff done, hobbling after what they think they believe in. Perhaps because they have a very good, innate understanding of what might happen if they stop?
The problem is, both those caricatures can be prophets, both can be ignored and both can be wrong (as well as right.)
I don't see myself as a prophet but "one who spots an unjust situation and boldly speaks out about it whilst also offering a solution rich with possibilities, new life and justice." sounds a lot like what happened when Project L started. Seem to remember you called it a prophetic idea at the time too. I don't know if it was or not, but it came more out of watching a TV programme that inspired compassion than out of hours spent in the early mornings communing with the Lord. But once it was there it was THERE. For that first 6 weeks, everything said "Make L happen" to me. It just wouldn't go away. And as I said before, it got off the ground remarkably quickly, after I did little more than talk to anyone who would listen. Act of God? Or do I just have extremely proactive friends?
Society won't listen to the prophet who stands and declares that "God has spoken... therefore they must..." any more. Because they don't care. And there are too many lunatics. Sadly, it seems many churches and Christians don't listen either. Maybe it's not fashionable any more? Maybe there's a better way to present the same info?
As for the cynicism, isn't it "I'm sure things should be better than this" cynicism, rather than the "it's all crap" kind? Not so dark after all? And on good days, it's what drives the things that make a difference.
If God can speak through a donkey, he can use us miserable cynics ;-)
I don't see myself as a prophet but "one who spots an unjust situation and boldly speaks out about it whilst also offering a solution rich with possibilities, new life and justice." sounds a lot like what happened when Project L started. Seem to remember you called it a prophetic idea at the time too. I don't know if it was or not, but it came more out of watching a TV programme that inspired compassion than out of hours spent in the early mornings communing with the Lord. But once it was there it was THERE. For that first 6 weeks, everything said "Make L happen" to me. It just wouldn't go away. And as I said before, it got off the ground remarkably quickly, after I did little more than talk to anyone who would listen. Act of God? Or do I just have extremely proactive friends?
Society won't listen to the prophet who stands and declares that "God has spoken... therefore they must..." any more. Because they don't care. And there are too many lunatics. Sadly, it seems many churches and Christians don't listen either. Maybe it's not fashionable any more? Maybe there's a better way to present the same info?
As for the cynicism, isn't it "I'm sure things should be better than this" cynicism, rather than the "it's all crap" kind? Not so dark after all? And on good days, it's what drives the things that make a difference.
If God can speak through a donkey, he can use us miserable cynics ;-)
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